>>--WWC's MAFIA: RESURRECTION~~-->

[MILKO]

I will point it out again:

May 31, 2009 1:31:08 GMT -5 MILKO said:

cloud save yourself and vote for Caleb! Has it occurred to any of you citizens that the mafia vote with us and we're in a deadpan situation? The mafia don't care if we tie! It gives them another chance to kill at night! Look at the numbers, guys! 4 mafia, 6 citizens, 2 others.

Votes for Caleb (Moon, Delcage, Robo, Rose)
Votes for Cloud (Zen, Shadow, Caleb, SDS)
Votes for Delcage (Cloud and Sonic)

I think it's obvious that either Cloud or Caleb are in the mafia because of the way the votes are distributed. If neither were in the mafia, then the actual mafia votes would be more distributed and inconspicuous. Just look! Cloud sparked the conversation which initially drew SDS and Zen to vote Delcage with him. Then we got momentum to Caleb again but that was no reason for them to stop campaigning for Delcage because at that time it was still 3-2. Then out of no where Shadow decides that Cloud is mafia and the votes immediately shifted to Cloud so they could dead pan it. And their reasoning is that Cloud wants us to think that he's being loud because he's a citizen but really he's being loud because he's a mafia pretending to be a citizen. That doesn't make any sense because the mafia would not want to draw attention to themselves and even it it was a,, "That's what we want you to think!" thing it's not working because people are trying to execute him anyway. The top reasoner for this is Zen. Caleb is trying to save his own skin and I'm not sure about SDS but it looks obvious to me that 75% of the votes for cloud are in people in the mafia. So if I'm right about Caleb then the citizens can win this game by eliminating Zen, Shadow and SDS. Most of them if not all will be in the mafia.

Either I'm in the mafia or they are. I know I'm not.

So going by:

Votes for Cloud (Zen, Shadow, Caleb, SDS)

Zen, Shadow and SDS are most likely in the mafia just like Caleb was. I'm targeting because he's lying about what his initial vote said. I know for a fact that post said Del and was later edited to target Cloud. Why initially lie about it? My guess is that they discussed off scene that the easiest person to target was Cloud because he was the loudest. Zen figured he'd edit his vote and then Shadow comes in guns blazing about Cloud.

When I pointed out that his vote was initially Delcage, he has denied the whole time which doesn't make any sense. Why not just say that it was initially for Delcage and then he changed it over? He just continues to lie about it and make cryptic statements like, "No matter the outcome of the game, I swear I'm not lying," He's not even disputing his innocence anymore because he's guilty. Two of us saw what his post said everyone sees that the post it was clearly edited. So yes, we have all the proof and reason in the world to go after Zen.

1) Because when the votes split between Caleb and Cloud, it's quite obvious that none of the mafia members would vote Caleb dead because then they'd lose a member, so they have to be on the other side. In addition, look who voted for Caleb:
Me-I'm clearly a citizen.
Robo-he's a dead citizen ;-;
Delcage
Moon

2) Because he continues to lie about his initial post which is just shady and like I said before, I'm campaigning his death until one of us is killed.

[ZuZu]

I'm not lying about my initial post, stop making that a point.

... And you've got four votes for Caleb and four votes for Cloud last round, what happened?

[MILKO]

I'm not going to stop bringing it up because it is a valid point! I mean at one point you said, "Well someone else must have saw it," and someone else DID see it! I wish we could go that far back in the Cbox because I remember arguing about Cloud's faulty logic and you were defending your choice.

[Darkest]

Well, if you go by a neutral standpoint, he may or may not be lying, therefore, given the circumstances, you cannot assume one way or another. I did not see it for myself, and I will assume that he is innocent until undeniably proven guilty.

Second of all, it could always be coincidence that they voted together. I mean, if we assumed you, Robo, Moon, and Del were mafia bcause of voting together, what would you do? Think things through before you spout accusations like that out. Someone may be lynched for this and I would prefer to be 100% certain they are mafia...or at least 80%.

[ZuZu]

Cbox? Someone changed their vote?

... Whatever, my reasons for voting Cloud were similar to Shadow's: I honestly was really sure that Cloud was mafia. My vote was never for Del. The whole reason it was edited was because I had worded it oddly. At first, it sounded like I was agreeing with Cloud, but I wasn't at all.

You don't even remember how exactly I worded it yourself! It just wasn't meant to be for Del.

[MILKO]

I remember the words vote and Del and that's all that matters.

And WTF, how would be able to sound like you were accidentally agreeing with someone if you claim that you were voting for them?

"I agree, Cloud."

How do you do that? But, I have no reason to argue this anymore. I know what I saw and your backpedaling just proves that you're mafia. My vote is for Zen.

And the votes only later switched up once everyone panicked thinking that we were going to have another dead end. I still stick to that fact because most of the people who did the switching were initially voting for Caleb in the first place. The only person who changed was SDS but at the time, his switch to Caleb didn't make a difference in the votes because either Cloud was going to die or we were going to tie. It was a stroke of luck that Delcage logged in and switched his vote at the last minute before meep locked the thread.

[ZuZu]

I know what I was doing. I never voted for him. I do not care what I said, I'm saying now that my vote was for Cloud the entire time.
That is the truth. I am truly baffled by this.

Why would I continue to lie, anyway? Especially with two people against me?
It would just be so much safer for me to agree with you, but I'm not going to, I know who I was voting for.
You two just saw it and thought my vote was for Del, the wording was odd.
You probably only glanced in my post in your haste to tell everyone that they were foolish to beleive Cloud.

What backpedaling? What are you talking about?

"I'm going with Cloud." could go EITHER way.

[MILKO]

Because your post specified Del!! I read over all of the posts and then ranted about the fact everyone was going to with faulty logic then when I looked back, I saw that you had completely changed your post and suddenly it was like, "I don't know...I think I'll vote Cloud!"

Whatever, this is so dumb now and no matter who wins this game, you'll be mafia like I said and I figured it out because of this specific incident.

[ZuZu]

Yes it is. I never voted for Del
You're not even reading now.

[MILKO]

Jun 3, 2009 17:34:45 GMT -5 Darkest said:

Well, if you go by a neutral standpoint, he may or may not be lying, therefore, given the circumstances, you cannot assume one way or another. I did not see it for myself, and I will assume that he is innocent until undeniably proven guilty.

Second of all, it could always be coincidence that they voted together. I mean, if we assumed you, Robo, Moon, and Del were mafia bcause of voting together, what would you do? Think things through before you spout accusations like that out. Someone may be lynched for this and I would prefer to be 100% certain they are mafia...or at least 80%.

Look, I have thought things through, go ahead and vote whoever you want but whether or not the citizens win or lose-Caleb, SDS, Zen and Shadow are most likely mafia.

Like I've said one million times it came down to a numbers game. We know Caleb was mafia and the possibility of Cloud being mafia is slim to none. We already know I'm not mafia because I wouldn't have campaigned to rounds to have my teammate killed. Robo obviously isn't mafia because he's a dead citizen. Moon most likely isn't mafia because he came in here once and voted for Caleb during a tight struggle. Delcage is definitely not mafia because he turned out to be the deciding vote that lynched Caleb.

So that leaves everyone on Cloud's side. We already know what I think about Zen. I already explained SDS. I already explained Shadow and Caleb is obvious. The reason I'm not accounting for Sonic is because in that tight of a vote, he could have easily saved Caleb if he'd actually been mafia. SO. I've thought things through, thank you very much.

[ZuZu]

omg, your wasting your vote on me.

Fine, Shadow and SDS, which do you want me to vote for? Because I'm gonna vote for one of them.

[Darkest]

Okay, you have valid points, Rosie...
Now I really don't know what to do. Your points are good, but they are based off of a single point of view. I prefer to see an argument(or, if you prefer, "debate") from all perspectives, or at least as near to it as possible. From my perspective, for instance, you are spouting out accusations, which have turned out to be true as of yet, but one of these times it won't be...maybe. Then people will think you were carving out the bad wood, or some such.

Although you have a point, I will withhold my vote. I would also like to say that Zen should put some back into it and defend himself. He should work to get his believability.

[ZuZu]

Are you serious? I have been defending myself!

May 31, 2009 12:58:18 GMT -5 ZuZu said:

Again, I never intended to vote for Del. My vote was not for him at any point in time.
I really thought Cloud was mafia, that's that.

And you keep saying I voted to keep Caleb alive. Even if I did change my votes around (Which again, I did not) the edit says I changed them before the next person even posted and before Caleb was even mentioned for a vote.

Jun 3, 2009 17:34:46 GMT -5 ZuZu said:

Cbox? Someone changed their vote?

... Whatever, my reasons for voting Cloud were similar to Shadow's: I honestly was really sure that Cloud was mafia. My vote was never for Del. The whole reason it was edited was because I had worded it oddly. At first, it sounded like I was agreeing with Cloud, but I wasn't at all.

You don't even remember how exactly I worded it yourself! It just wasn't meant to be for Del.

Jun 3, 2009 17:43:26 GMT -5 ZuZu said:

I know what I was doing. I never voted for him. I do not care what I said, I'm saying now that my vote was for Cloud the entire time.
That is the truth. I am truly baffled by this.

Why would I continue to lie, anyway? Especially with two people against me?
It would just be so much safer for me to agree with you, but I'm not going to, I know who I was voting for.
You two just saw it and thought my vote was for Del, the wording was odd.
You probably only glanced in my post in your haste to tell everyone that they were foolish to beleive Cloud.

What backpedaling? What are you talking about?

"I'm going with Cloud." could go EITHER way.

Jun 3, 2009 18:15:39 GMT -5 ZuZu said:

omg, your wasting your vote on me.

Fine, Shadow and SDS, which do you want me to vote for? Because I'm gonna vote for one of them.

[Darkest]

No excuses! Those are saying "No" when they said "Yes". Put your back into it, throw a punch back at her! In this circumstance, it's okay to hit a girl...kinda.

[ZuZu]

But I agree. She isn't mafia. Why would she when she's been campaigning for Caleb the last two rounds? The only thing against her is that she's still around.

I'm really unsure about Ayu and SDS, I mean, Ayu is in a similar spot as me (Though, never had confusion with her vote) and SDS did change his vote around... But Rosie's right, it tied it up again, and he probably never was on to change it back in time.

Then there's Del and Moon, who may have just voted for Caleb to get a target off their back. Though, with Del it's less unlikely, of course.

Sonic, and you Darkest are neutral at this point. Either of you could be using the current conflict and hiding behind it.

And I have no idea about Cloud now. I was really sure before, but...

[Sonic101]

Zen seems to be the most suspicious, but I really don't feel comfortable to being shoehorned into believing that because of one misunderstanding. (For the record, I don't remember the post in question at all, sorry I can't help. >.>)

Other then Zen, I'm pretty suspicious of SDS as well. I still want to suspect Delcage, but he seems to be cleared for now.

Of course, we also have to keep in mind that we still have a doctor and sheriff still around, so we've got people who aren't citizens who are still helping us out. (Although both really need to step up their game... >.>)

So, to get voting starting, I guess I'll throw down a vote on Zen for now. It seems to be a safe bet.

[ZuZu]

Well fine, I'm voting for SDS.

He flipped his votes around even more than I "apparently" did.

[What's Kraken]

Actually, I HAVE been pretty inconsistent with my voting. All this time, I've been looking at everything and just going with pure instinct. First time I voted, it was against Darkest. Second time, it was Cloud. I know the only real logic I had against Cloud was that he was going back and forth, but to be honest...I only skimmed his posts (they got pretty wordy at some points, didn't want to read into it TOO much or my brain would break). At that point, I really was confused over Caleb and Cloud--didn't really think too much of Del since he had pretty much nothing on him.

If the only reason I'm being accused of being mafia is because I voted for Cloud, know that that was purely a wrong decision. I seriously didn't know that Caleb telling me he wanted to be lynched already meant anything about his being mafia. >.>

This round though, I think I'll vote SDS. He outright asked me a few days ago if I was the angel/doctor. Don't know why he'd do that...but yeah.

[Darkest]

SDS is just downright creepy all the time(no offense, SDS). So I am still at a loss for vote-placement.

And Rosie, why not vote for SDS if you think he's mafia anyway? You could save this round from becoming a tie like the first one.

[Sonic101]

Jun 3, 2009 20:50:45 GMT -5 Darkest said:

SDS is just downright creepy all the time(no offense, SDS). So I am still at a loss for vote-placement.

And Rosie, why not vote for SDS if you think he's mafia anyway? You could save this round from becoming a tie like the first one.

I'm more then willing to switch my vote if it comes down to that. I was very torn between voting between Zen and SDS this round.

SDS does seem like the safer vote, I can see why you'd want to vote Zen. Instant satisfaction, we want to know the answer, so let's kill him and find out! Risky move, especially if we're wrong.

I kind of want to switch my vote now, but I don't wanna appear wishy-washy. >.>

[Darkest]

Well, you now see my problem. This is like Daes'Daemar, not even kidding. You know it is, Zen. This is the Game of Houses on a grand scale, where everyone sees everything with greater meaning than it was originally meant.

[DelCage]

Ok, Darkest has just abstained from voting TWICE in a row. SDS I'm suspicious of, but his vote was for Caleb....so either he was trying to divert attention from him or he was innocently being obnoxious by tying it.

So I'm stuck between those 2.

[MILKO]

But SdS only switched his vote when it didn't matter and it was by chance that Delcage got on in time to switch his back. And abstaining from votes actually hurts the citizens. I'm not sure why you're trying to get me to vote for SDS, Darkest when you, yourself are refusing to vote but I am sticking with my vote.

[Darkest]

I didn't say that, I merely said you could be the tiebreaker, that is all. I don't like being the tiebreaker, with everyone depending on my vote...too much responsibility.

[MILKO]

That's crap. You don't abstain and then try to get others to do your dirty work for you.

[Darkest]

The coin has decided for me...Zen shall fall.

[Commy Pandy]

Zen-3
SDS-2

Just tallying...

[ZuZu]

I change my vote to... Darkest... >>

[DelCage]

Put me down for Zen, making it 4-2 I believe.

[What's Kraken]

Even though it makes no real difference, mark me down for Zen.